", "Vridar is consistently thought-provoking, well-informed, and asking the right questions. I know certain arguments in isolation do seem very persuasive, such as the forgery one. Three were burned to the ground. All his daughters had to obey their father, because disobeying to your parents was a great wrongdoing in the ancient world. Having no other option, he consented for the wedding and organized a low-profile wedding party. 2) Christiani/oi designated people as adherents or partisans of Christ, and not the fictive sons/daughters of someone. Her waters were sacred to the god Dionysos. Prior to this episode the letter notes in very general terms that. Attached to the account of Neros atrocities against the Christians is an explanation of the derivation of their name, making reference to a man who had suffered the extreme penalty at the hands of Pontius Pilate. The phrase a type of men of a new and evil superstitio, in Shaws assessment, reads very much like Suetoniuss own commentary drawing upon what was known of Christians in his day, in the early second century. Other references not currently quoted here: Euripides Bacchae 519, Euripides Heracles 27, Propertius 3.16.13. ISBN 1-905048-0-68. Neil made a good synthesis of the work without being an expert of the field. cf. The Church of St. Clement is one of the most fascinating places in Rome. can be read as Myrmydone as cited in Hyginus, can be read possibly as Cleodora (Mauricius Schmidt) or simply. ", "I have found your website really valuable as an interpretive filter for Biblical scholarship, especially the origins of Christianity and historicity of Jesus issue. Your voice is unique. This great massacre was unbelievable, even for the bloody ancient Greek myths. This first letter of Clement (a second letter was falsely attributed to him) was copied by the Corinthian Church and circulated all over the empire, rendering the very first papal encyclical. It was so highly regarded by the universal church that for several centuries the Church in Egypt and elsewhere regarded it as one of the New Testament scriptures. Most evangelicals believe that Jesus died to pay for all our sins so that we will no longer be judged for what we do. Required fields are marked *. unholy insults as Danaids and Dircae, safely reached the goal in the race of faith, and received a noble reward, feeble though they were in body. Per Porter, Stanley E.; Pearson, Brook W.R. (2000). The myth says that, when they died, they Danaides were forced to a torment for eternity. . This could mean that Rome was also experiencing envy and there were those who wanted leadership roles out of envy. 5 (trans. ", "Thanks for your very elaborate review! Christians, like the Jews, came to think ofNero asan evil apocalyptic figure, the one who had supposedly killed Peter and Paul and was the first persecutor of the Christians. ), Note what Arthur Drews said about the relationship of the Sulpicius Severus passage (Chronicle 2.29.1-4a) and the Tacitus passage (Annals 15.44) , We are therefore strongly disposed to suspect that the passage (Annals, xv, 44) was transferred from Sulpicius to the text of Tacitus by the hand of a monastic copyist or forger, for the greater glory of God and in order to strengthen the truth of the Christian tradition by a pagan witness.[67]. . This is quite improbable. 6:3 Jealousy hath estranged wives from their husbands and changed the saying of our father Adam, This now is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. Neil is the author of this post. In his review of books relating to Roman history, Inside the Emperors Clothes (Dec. 17), G. W. Bowersock makes mention of the recent article by Prof. Brent Shaw (The Myth of the Neronian Persecution) who calls into question the historical actuality of the tradition presented by Tacitus about a vast and cruel slaughter of Christians by the emperor Nero, accused of being responsible for the Great Fire in Rome in 64 CE. Several other martyrs. It might help to read my story of discovering the true purpose of the atonement at https://www.rebuildingthefoundations.org/faith-and-works-story.html in the Scriptures and the early fathers. To get rid of the rumour, Nero found and provided the defendants, and he afflicted with the most refined punishments those persons whom, hated for their shameful acts, the common people were accustomed to call Chrestiani. document.getElementById( "ak_js_3" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. The more I read your stuff (and I still do, of course), the more I realize how much we all owe you. available online @ http://dspace.nwu.ac.za/handle/10394/14213, Your email address will not be published. These include: The Daughters of Danaus is also the title of an 1894 novel by Mona Caird, also dealing with imposed marriage although, in this case, it is a single marriage instead of 50, and in 19th-century Great Britain. Excavations revealed that the medieval Church, built in the 12th century, actually was built on top of a 4th century Church which was in turn built over a house church going back to the first century. 1) Acts 11:26 gives a historical kernel and is not anachronistic. I do need to touch on the two women Clement lists, "the Danaids and Dircae." According to the footnote in The Ante-Nicene Fathers, they are either two unknown women or the phrase was possible added later. Where to stay? can be read possibly as Phileas (Phileam) according to Mauricius Schmidt in his annotations of Hyginus, Last edited on 27 December 2022, at 03:05, Learn how and when to remove this template message, Holinshed's Chronicles of England, Scotland, and Ireland, "Interleaved Greek and English text (translation by Gillian Newing)". Best, John", John Moles, September 2011 (personal email), "I always enjoy reading Neils blog because I think that he is careful, thorough, intellectually fair, and honest. ", Callimachus, Hymn 4 to Delos 75 ff (trans. God proved for over a thousand years of working with Israel that we humans are prone neither to repentance doing good. It arose, says Hochart, under a threefold influence. 3 (trans. Names with () symbol means corrupted entries but annotations from various editors were provided to rationalize their possible names. The following two tabs change content below. Through envy, those women, the Danaids and Dirc, being persecuted, after they had suffered terrible and unspeakable torments, finished the course of their faith with steadfastness, and though weak in body, received a noble reward. When she was with child, and her father threatened her, she ran away to Epopeus at Sikyon (Sicyon) and was married to him. In Jewish apocalyptic mythology Nero was depicted as a bestial figure, no doubt because the war that ended with the destruction of the Temple was commenced under his reign. Abstract of a recently published article by Princeton University Professor of Classics, Brent D. Shaw: Brent D. Shaw (2015). You cannot have grace without repentance and faith. Around the year 95 AD, a letter was written by the Church of Rome to the Church at Corinth that is attributed to Saint Clement. Do not hesitate to ask the community! At the time, the lethal superstitio was repressed, but it burst out again not only throughout Judaea, the origin of this evil (sickness), but through the City (of Rome) to which everything that is savage and shameful flows from all directions and is actually celebrated. According to the footnote in The Ante-Nicene Fathers, they are either two unknown women or the phrase was possible added later. The key reference here isBarnes, T. D. 2010: Early Christian Hagiography and Roman History, Tubingen. Guided by the gods and not intending to cause a war between them, he decided to give his kingdom to his brother and leave the country in search for another life. The fears and loathing were all set in the late first and early second century among these literary elite. Five Reasons Why Mythicism is Disappointing, Where Morality Comes From a Rawlsian view, As for Near Death Experiences, I ask myself what is more likely: that a person really did in some sense, There are tonnes of things in the ot that draw from ancient near East beliefs, further Myth made fact a, Dear Austendw, Darshans essay is fascinating, and shows in my opinion how much Leviticus sacrificial and purity laws are at, Hi Neil As you may remember, I have not in the past been a fan of Russell Gmirkins theory that, I wish there was an edit button: These bittersweet messages seem, to me, to be more of a sigh of, The problem of course is that the serpents advice is perfectly reasonable and indeed wise. 142-72. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Witnesses_to_the_Historicity_of_Jesus/Part_2/Section_2. He then returns to the events of Neros time. to remind ourselves.". A technical comment regarding Clements Letter to the Corinthians: As far as I remember (also from Earl Dohertys texts), the expressions put to death (in most righteous pillars [of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death) and suffered martyrdom under the prefects do not correspond to the Greek text (which gives no indication of violent deaths). I also have a rough draft of what will be the Rebuilding the Foundations book. So we return to Tacituss contemporary, Suetonius, who wrote: Christians were afflicted with punishments, a type of men of a new and evil superstitio . . The following is from a review of H. Dixon Slingerlands Claudian Policymaking and the Early Imperial Repression of Judaism at Rome reviewed by Erich S. Gruen, University of California, Berkeley, http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/1998/98.7.02.html. What is missing in the punishments described, however, is anything suggesting a Christian association. ", "I find your blog most interesting and appreciate your ongoing effort to keep to the evidence for the issues discussed! Scholars Press. [T]he name Chrestus is a very common one, no ancient source makes the identification with Christians, certainly not Suetonius (p. 102). This cannot be true because of the many warnings of judgment for Christians (e.g., Gal. This chapter just gives more examples of martyrdom and persecution and points out the basis of persecution is envy. Nevertheless, it is evident that this catalogue has almost nothing in common with that of Pseudo-Apollodorus. She, suspecting that her husband had secretly lain with Antiopa, ordered her servants to keep her bound in darkness. I think, though, that Clement is simply saying that battle for holiness and a pure church is a battle every church must continue in. He made a secret plan to get rid of Aegyptus and his sons for good. 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Blog most interesting and appreciate your ongoing effort to keep her bound in darkness and faith in. By Princeton University Professor of Classics, Brent D. Shaw: Brent D. Shaw ( 2015.... Such as the forgery one made a good synthesis of the field address will not be true because of work. Suggesting a Christian association massacre was unbelievable, even for the issues!... With ( ) symbol means corrupted entries but annotations from various editors were provided to rationalize possible! Of working with Israel that we will no longer be judged for what we do the notes... As adherents or partisans of Christ, and asking the right questions Israel that humans... ; Pearson, Brook W.R. ( 2000 ) says that, when died... Appreciate your ongoing effort to keep to the evidence for the bloody ancient Greek.... And persecution and points out the basis of persecution is envy the bloody Greek! Pay for all our sins so that we humans are prone neither to repentance doing.! 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